<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" xmlns:creativeCommons="http://backend.userland.com/creativeCommonsRssModule"	> <channel><title>Comments on: Long-term Preservation Storage:  OCLC Digital Archive versus Amazon S3</title> <atom:link href="http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/</link> <description>We&#039;re Disrupted, We&#039;re Librarians, and We&#039;re Not Going to Take It Anymore</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:48:39 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: Eifl-OA: Georgia</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-218167</link> <dc:creator>Eifl-OA: Georgia</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:31:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-218167</guid> <description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;http://t.co/w0AFALo2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content"><a href="http://t.co/w0AFALo2" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/w0AFALo2</a></span></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: blog.ecorrado.us &#187; S3 for Backup, Is It Worth It?</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-99320</link> <dc:creator>blog.ecorrado.us &#187; S3 for Backup, Is It Worth It?</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:29:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-99320</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] about the availability of the service, but not of the files themselves. A while back I did a comparison of Amazon&#8217;s S3 and OCLC&#8217;s &#8220;Digital Archive&#8221; service that goes into these details and a little bit [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://cdn.dltj.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" />[...] about the availability of the service, but not of the files themselves. A while back I did a comparison of Amazon&#8217;s S3 and OCLC&#8217;s &#8220;Digital Archive&#8221; service that goes into these details and a little bit [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Re: [AMIA-L] personal digital archiving; was &#34;Future of Video&#34;</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-36357</link> <dc:creator>Re: [AMIA-L] personal digital archiving; was &#34;Future of Video&#34;</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 05:59:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-36357</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] OCLC&#039;s Digital Archive Service, and in the process provides a nice illustration of the difference:  http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/  Once the Audiovisual Archive Network (AVAN) is up and running, it will offer a Digital Repository [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://cdn.dltj.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" />[...] OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive Service, and in the process provides a nice illustration of the difference: <a href="http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/" rel="nofollow">http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/</a> Once the Audiovisual Archive Network (AVAN) is up and running, it will offer a Digital Repository [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: John Wang</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-34993</link> <dc:creator>John Wang</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:37:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-34993</guid> <description>It is a very interesting post. A larger picture born in my mind is the access to those preserved content. Is it a black box only for preservation purposes? Or it should offer users access to those content as well?If users don&#039;t have access, libraries have to host at least a set of copy of the entire collection elsewhere - What is the total cost (hardware, software, labor, physical space, Power, etc)? If we add the cost of the &quot;access copy/copies,&quot; it appears to me that it is going to cost libraries much more.It is critical and practical to look at cloud computing solutions coving the whole library value chain (from acquisition, cataloging, access, preservation, etc) instead of looking at it for a part of the value chain. The saving on one part of the chain does not translate to saving on other parts, and it may be likely to spike the costs on other part of the chain. Amazon appears to be the vendor for the overarching picture from its various web services (storage, cloud computing, rented IT expertise, etc).One element is missing from the post is that the technical infrastructure that Amazon and OCLC run those services - it is really the key to data recovery, backup, management, and security, regardless what&#039;s says on the terms. The terms have to be written for &quot;minimal business liability&quot; and &quot;protection from law suits.&quot; If we look at &quot;economy of scale&quot; here: Amazon hasFar larger Grid/Server Farm, and thus much more stable, distributed, faster, and high availability; Much more years of experience running cloud computing and hosted storage; Much experienced staff manage cloud computing.I have no idea what infrastructure OCLC is running for its Digital Archive and who is manage it from reading the post. I don&#039;t know how OCLC can compete with Amazon on the rules of the &quot;economy of scale.&quot;The added values from OCLC are not really added values to me anyway: for most of the libraries have set up processes and applications to manage them, which can be run on our local infrastructures or elsewhere, such as Amazon infrastructure.&quot;In my humble opinion, OCLC got to consider investing in other larger Cloud Computing Providers as its infrastructure instead of investing on hardware to reinvent a much &quot;smaller wheel,&quot; and focus the investment on software solutions on preservation and access services for libraries - a strategy to lower costs and concentration on core values.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a very interesting post. A larger picture born in my mind is the access to those preserved content. Is it a black box only for preservation purposes? Or it should offer users access to those content as well?</p><p>If users don&#8217;t have access, libraries have to host at least a set of copy of the entire collection elsewhere &#8211; What is the total cost (hardware, software, labor, physical space, Power, etc)? If we add the cost of the &#8220;access copy/copies,&#8221; it appears to me that it is going to cost libraries much more.</p><p>It is critical and practical to look at cloud computing solutions coving the whole library value chain (from acquisition, cataloging, access, preservation, etc) instead of looking at it for a part of the value chain. The saving on one part of the chain does not translate to saving on other parts, and it may be likely to spike the costs on other part of the chain. Amazon appears to be the vendor for the overarching picture from its various web services (storage, cloud computing, rented IT expertise, etc).</p><p>One element is missing from the post is that the technical infrastructure that Amazon and OCLC run those services &#8211; it is really the key to data recovery, backup, management, and security, regardless what&#8217;s says on the terms. The terms have to be written for &#8220;minimal business liability&#8221; and &#8220;protection from law suits.&#8221; If we look at &#8220;economy of scale&#8221; here: Amazon has</p><p>Far larger Grid/Server Farm, and thus much more stable, distributed, faster, and high availability;<br /> Much more years of experience running cloud computing and hosted storage;<br /> Much experienced staff manage cloud computing.</p><p>I have no idea what infrastructure OCLC is running for its Digital Archive and who is manage it from reading the post. I don&#8217;t know how OCLC can compete with Amazon on the rules of the &#8220;economy of scale.&#8221;</p><p>The added values from OCLC are not really added values to me anyway: for most of the libraries have set up processes and applications to manage them, which can be run on our local infrastructures or elsewhere, such as Amazon infrastructure.&#8221;</p><p>In my humble opinion, OCLC got to consider investing in other larger Cloud Computing Providers as its infrastructure instead of investing on hardware to reinvent a much &#8220;smaller wheel,&#8221; and focus the investment on software solutions on preservation and access services for libraries &#8211; a strategy to lower costs and concentration on core values.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Can We Outsource the Preservation of Digital Bits? &#124; Disruptive Library Technology Jester</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-34953</link> <dc:creator>Can We Outsource the Preservation of Digital Bits? &#124; Disruptive Library Technology Jester</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:55:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-34953</guid> <description>[...] companies that do the same thing? (I know of OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service &#8212; I did a comparison of it with Amazon S3 last [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] companies that do the same thing? (I know of OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service &mdash; I did a comparison of it with Amazon S3 last [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: iNODE &#187; S3 Storage</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-34545</link> <dc:creator>iNODE &#187; S3 Storage</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:59:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-34545</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] offered an interesting apples-to-oranges comparison of OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service and S3 last May that is worth reading. His post dug a bit deeper into issues raised by Barbara Quint&#8217;s [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://cdn.dltj.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" />[...] offered an interesting apples-to-oranges comparison of OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service and S3 last May that is worth reading. His post dug a bit deeper into issues raised by Barbara Quint&#8217;s [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fitzroy Libratech: Digital Archives as Profit</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-33900</link> <dc:creator>Fitzroy Libratech: Digital Archives as Profit</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:09:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-33900</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] information in S3! As Peter E. Murray describes in his blog Disruptive Library Technology Jester ( http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/ ), there are important reasons for that price difference. As Murray points out, while [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://cdn.dltj.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" />[...] information in S3! As Peter E. Murray describes in his blog Disruptive Library Technology Jester ( <a href="http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/" rel="nofollow">http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/</a> ), there are important reasons for that price difference. As Murray points out, while [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: the Jester</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-33519</link> <dc:creator>the Jester</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:14:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-33519</guid> <description>What I had intended to write was that OCLC&#039;s Digital Archive service is &quot;complete&quot; in terms of a traditional dark archive service that may be sought by an archivist.  (It occurs to me, though, that we don&#039;t have much of a tradition of dark archive digital services, so that may be a bit of an oxymoron.)  Amazon S3 could be considered an &quot;incomplete&quot; dark archive service (no inherent backup or disaster recovery assurance) with a &quot;light archive&quot; add-on.It is true that OCLC&#039;s Digital Archive service does not allow for end- user access to content out of the Digital Archive.  For archive managers, there is a cost associated with retrieving bulk batches of content out of the archive.  I did not include the latter in the analysis since it was outside the bounds of what we had envisioned the Digital Archive could be used for.  But I&#039;ll agree that it is an important aspect to look at.I don&#039;t think there are other Amazon Web Services that by themselves would inherently be appealing to a digital archive service, but the ability to build such tools in the Amazon EC2 virtual computing cloud is possible, if only theoretical at this point.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I had intended to write was that OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service is &#8220;complete&#8221; in terms of a traditional dark archive service that may be sought by an archivist.  (It occurs to me, though, that we don&#8217;t have much of a tradition of dark archive digital services, so that may be a bit of an oxymoron.)  Amazon S3 could be considered an &#8220;incomplete&#8221; dark archive service (no inherent backup or disaster recovery assurance) with a &#8220;light archive&#8221; add-on.</p><p>It is true that OCLC&#8217;s Digital Archive service does not allow for end- user access to content out of the Digital Archive.  For archive managers, there is a cost associated with retrieving bulk batches of content out of the archive.  I did not include the latter in the analysis since it was outside the bounds of what we had envisioned the Digital Archive could be used for.  But I&#8217;ll agree that it is an important aspect to look at.</p><p>I don&#8217;t think there are other Amazon Web Services that by themselves would inherently be appealing to a digital archive service, but the ability to build such tools in the Amazon EC2 virtual computing cloud is possible, if only theoretical at this point.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: barbara quint</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-33518</link> <dc:creator>barbara quint</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:12:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-33518</guid> <description>&lt;i&gt;[&lt;/i&gt;&lt;acronym title=&quot;&quot;Disruptive Library Technology Jester&quot;&gt;DLTJ&lt;/acronym&gt;&lt;i&gt; editor&#039;s note:  With Barbara Quint&#039;s permission, I&#039;m posting a comment received as e-mail here along with my reply.]&lt;/i&gt;both amazon and oclc had put/get costs as i recall, but i didn&#039;t compare them. have to suspect that amazon&#039;s were probably lower.about your analysis, though, you describe oclc&#039;s digital archive as complete, including end-user access. i don&#039;t think so. it&#039;s for archival copies (hi-res) only and, as far as i know, accessible to archive managers. they expect enduser access to come through their contentDM service to which libraries subscribe separately. the contentDM subscribers don&#039;t even get a special rate from oclc for the new digital archive service.and as for putting formatting issues on the user/subscriber, oclc was quite clear that the archivist sending them the files was responsible for any changes in preservation formatting. at present, they didn&#039;t even have a forum for warning people that their formats are getting obsolete, although there was a glimmer of interest when i suggested it as a good idea. i got the feeling that it would only happen if the service sold big enough to develop its own forum.what i didn&#039;t look into is whether other amazon web services could supply tools that would appeal to archivists. package together a number of their services and you might get a better deal all around and probably still at a lower price.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[</i><acronym title="&quot;Disruptive Library Technology Jester">DLTJ</acronym><i> editor's note:  With Barbara Quint's permission, I'm posting a comment received as e-mail here along with my reply.]</i></p><p>both amazon and oclc had put/get costs as i recall, but i didn&#8217;t compare them. have to suspect that amazon&#8217;s were probably lower.</p><p>about your analysis, though, you describe oclc&#8217;s digital archive as complete, including end-user access. i don&#8217;t think so. it&#8217;s for archival copies (hi-res) only and, as far as i know, accessible to archive managers. they expect enduser access to come through their contentDM service to which libraries subscribe separately. the contentDM subscribers don&#8217;t even get a special rate from oclc for the new digital archive service.</p><p>and as for putting formatting issues on the user/subscriber, oclc was quite clear that the archivist sending them the files was responsible for any changes in preservation formatting. at present, they didn&#8217;t even have a forum for warning people that their formats are getting obsolete, although there was a glimmer of interest when i suggested it as a good idea. i got the feeling that it would only happen if the service sold big enough to develop its own forum.</p><p>what i didn&#8217;t look into is whether other amazon web services could supply tools that would appeal to archivists. package together a number of their services and you might get a better deal all around and probably still at a lower price.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: the Jester</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/oclc-digital-archive-vs-amazon-s3/comment-page-1/#comment-33510</link> <dc:creator>the Jester</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:35:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">https://dltj.org/?p=361#comment-33510</guid> <description>Robert -- In retrospect, it isn&#039;t entirely clear from the the table of cost distributions, but the start-up and ongoing &quot;ingest costs&quot; represent the network transmission costs.  For data coming into the S3 service, the user is charged a flat rate of $0.10/GB.  The rate for returning content out of the S3 archive varies.  Outputting up to 10TB per month (which would cover outputting the entire 2TB prototypical content discussed in the article) costs 17 cents per GB; the cost for 2TB would $340/month.  If you tested the content once a month by downloading it to a local server, that would be $4,080.Costs for using a Amazon EC2 virtual machine are harder to calculate, and probably can&#039;t be accomplished without a little bit of experimentation.  That would involve actually building an EC2 machine to do the virus and fixity testing.Thanks for the comments.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert &#8212; In retrospect, it isn&#8217;t entirely clear from the the table of cost distributions, but the start-up and ongoing &#8220;ingest costs&#8221; represent the network transmission costs.  For data coming into the S3 service, the user is charged a flat rate of $0.10/GB.  The rate for returning content out of the S3 archive varies.  Outputting up to 10TB per month (which would cover outputting the entire 2TB prototypical content discussed in the article) costs 17 cents per GB; the cost for 2TB would $340/month.  If you tested the content once a month by downloading it to a local server, that would be $4,080.</p><p>Costs for using a Amazon EC2 virtual machine are harder to calculate, and probably can&#8217;t be accomplished without a little bit of experimentation.  That would involve actually building an EC2 machine to do the virus and fixity testing.</p><p>Thanks for the comments.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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