<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" xmlns:creativeCommons="http://backend.userland.com/creativeCommonsRssModule"	> <channel><title>Comments on: Beyond Federated Search Redux</title> <atom:link href="http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/</link> <description>We&#039;re Disrupted, We&#039;re Librarians, and We&#039;re Not Going to Take It Anymore</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:48:39 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: Beyond Federated Search – Winning the Battle and Losing the War? &#187; Federated Search Blog</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-73472</link> <dc:creator>Beyond Federated Search – Winning the Battle and Losing the War? &#187; Federated Search Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:06:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-73472</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Beyond Federated Search Redux &#124; Disruptive Library Technology Jester April 1st, 2009 at 2:03 pm&#160;&#160; [...] started with a post by Carl Grant on the Federated [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://cdn.dltj.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" />[...] Beyond Federated Search Redux | Disruptive Library Technology Jester April 1st, 2009 at 2:03 pm&nbsp;&nbsp; [...] started with a post by Carl Grant on the Federated [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brian Despain</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35166</link> <dc:creator>Brian Despain</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:10:47 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35166</guid> <description>We have also discussed giving users sliders to indicate their preference for newer results or more complete results.  The point in the UI is to be seamless to users where possible and let users make their choice based on their research needs.  If Summon offers a robust enough API, it might be possible to integrate outside federated search results. I think it&#039;s a bit short sighted as well since there always going need to bring some data outside the index.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have also discussed giving users sliders to indicate their preference for newer results or more complete results.  The point in the UI is to be seamless to users where possible and let users make their choice based on their research needs.  If Summon offers a robust enough API, it might be possible to integrate outside federated search results. I think it&#8217;s a bit short sighted as well since there always going need to bring some data outside the index.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35165</link> <dc:creator>Jonathan Rochkind</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:04:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35165</guid> <description>Brian, how can you present a merged result set without waiting for the broadcast search to complete, thus bringing everything down the slowest common denominator and NOT offering the speed of an index?Oh, you&#039;re presenting incremental results?That&#039;s a whole different UI challenge that I&#039;ve basically given up on. I can&#039;t figure out any way to have incremental results that are not REALLY confusing to users.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, how can you present a merged result set without waiting for the broadcast search to complete, thus bringing everything down the slowest common denominator and NOT offering the speed of an index?</p><p>Oh, you&#8217;re presenting incremental results?</p><p>That&#8217;s a whole different UI challenge that I&#8217;ve basically given up on. I can&#8217;t figure out any way to have incremental results that are not REALLY confusing to users.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brian Despain</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35164</link> <dc:creator>Brian Despain</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:00:59 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35164</guid> <description>I don&#039;t see any reason why merging the unified index and the federated search data. We have done that for multi-million document full text document sets and federated search results. It can be made fairly seamless to users and offers the up to date results of broadcast search and the speed &amp; flexibility of an index. I think you are right the unified discovery layer represents another way to search and explore underlying data, that will most likely lead to increased database usage as users use the unified index as a discovery tool</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any reason why merging the unified index and the federated search data. We have done that for multi-million document full text document sets and federated search results. It can be made fairly seamless to users and offers the up to date results of broadcast search and the speed &amp; flexibility of an index. I think you are right the unified discovery layer represents another way to search and explore underlying data, that will most likely lead to increased database usage as users use the unified index as a discovery tool</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: the Jester</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35163</link> <dc:creator>the Jester</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:49:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35163</guid> <description>Good point about their intention to release the interface of Summon that we saw at ALA Midwinter into open source.  Time will tell if it can be readily modified.  I&#039;ve also heard from good sources that there is an active effort to put Aquabrowser Library atop the Summon API.Here in Ohio, the intention our project is to merge the unified index data with the federated search data.  My gut tells me it will be possible, and I&#039;ve seen evidence in some systems that it can happen.  We&#039;ll see if it happens at scale, though.As we chatted about on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://code4lib.org/irc/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;code4lib IRC channel&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;m somewhat optimistic that A&amp;I providers may see benefits from putting their data into Summon.  This is based on the assumption that they are getting paid for their data, so it represents a new revenue stream for them.  (I don&#039;t know if this is actually the case.)  Unified indexes like Summon aren&#039;t necessarily a threat to their core users because the heavy duty researchers will likely need the advanced indexing and search capabilities that an aggregator like Summon won&#039;t be able to provide.  For OhioLINK&#039;s project, we are operating under the assumption that the unified discovery layer represents a &lt;em&gt;new&lt;/em&gt; interface to the data; it doesn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;replace&lt;/em&gt; existing interfaces where that advanced functionality will still reside.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about their intention to release the interface of Summon that we saw at ALA Midwinter into open source.  Time will tell if it can be readily modified.  I&#8217;ve also heard from good sources that there is an active effort to put Aquabrowser Library atop the Summon API.</p><p>Here in Ohio, the intention our project is to merge the unified index data with the federated search data.  My gut tells me it will be possible, and I&#8217;ve seen evidence in some systems that it can happen.  We&#8217;ll see if it happens at scale, though.</p><p>As we chatted about on the <a href="http://code4lib.org/irc/" rel="nofollow">code4lib IRC channel</a> I&#8217;m somewhat optimistic that A&amp;I providers may see benefits from putting their data into Summon.  This is based on the assumption that they are getting paid for their data, so it represents a new revenue stream for them.  (I don&#8217;t know if this is actually the case.)  Unified indexes like Summon aren&#8217;t necessarily a threat to their core users because the heavy duty researchers will likely need the advanced indexing and search capabilities that an aggregator like Summon won&#8217;t be able to provide.  For OhioLINK&#8217;s project, we are operating under the assumption that the unified discovery layer represents a <em>new</em> interface to the data; it doesn&#8217;t <em>replace</em> existing interfaces where that advanced functionality will still reside.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35162</link> <dc:creator>Jonathan Rochkind</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:27:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35162</guid> <description>True, Peter, but they&#039;ve also stated clearly that the out-of-the-box interface will be an open source (PHP I think) app which uses an API to the actual Summon functionality -- the same API which will be available to customers too.So there&#039;s nothing to stop customers from writing a front-end that IS a hybrid solution, using an external broadcast search solution.  I mean, you would have trouble merging the results from both, but you could provide the results in seperate listings, which is the only realistic thing to do anyway, I think.I think it&#039;s reasonable for Summon to limit the scope of their project to not include broadcast search, but provide the hooks for you to easily combine it with broadcast search in your own hybrid solution. The scope of Summon is big enough already!I&#039;m actually not sure whether to be optimstic about _publishers_  sharing metadata with Summon. I would be pessimistic about an A&amp;I db or aggregator sharing metadata with Summon, becuase summon will be seen as a competitor. But if Summon isn&#039;t actually providing access to human-readable fulltext (as they are not) -- do most publishers make much money off search of their content alone? Maybe the biggest ones like Elsevier, which are also aggregators. But for a publisher who isn&#039;t also an aggregator, I&#039;m somewhat optimistic that they&#039;d see it as in their interests to share rather than withhold metadata.  Having the technical infrastructure to easily and regularly deliver the metadata is another story though.(And, by the way, I consider plain text full text used for matching queries but NOT used to actually deliver a human-readable version -- to be &#039;metadata&#039;.  )</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, Peter, but they&#8217;ve also stated clearly that the out-of-the-box interface will be an open source (PHP I think) app which uses an API to the actual Summon functionality &#8212; the same API which will be available to customers too.</p><p>So there&#8217;s nothing to stop customers from writing a front-end that IS a hybrid solution, using an external broadcast search solution.  I mean, you would have trouble merging the results from both, but you could provide the results in seperate listings, which is the only realistic thing to do anyway, I think.</p><p>I think it&#8217;s reasonable for Summon to limit the scope of their project to not include broadcast search, but provide the hooks for you to easily combine it with broadcast search in your own hybrid solution. The scope of Summon is big enough already!</p><p>I&#8217;m actually not sure whether to be optimstic about _publishers_  sharing metadata with Summon. I would be pessimistic about an A&#038;I db or aggregator sharing metadata with Summon, becuase summon will be seen as a competitor. But if Summon isn&#8217;t actually providing access to human-readable fulltext (as they are not) &#8212; do most publishers make much money off search of their content alone? Maybe the biggest ones like Elsevier, which are also aggregators. But for a publisher who isn&#8217;t also an aggregator, I&#8217;m somewhat optimistic that they&#8217;d see it as in their interests to share rather than withhold metadata.  Having the technical infrastructure to easily and regularly deliver the metadata is another story though.</p><p>(And, by the way, I consider plain text full text used for matching queries but NOT used to actually deliver a human-readable version &#8212; to be &#8216;metadata&#8217;.  )</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: the Jester</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35161</link> <dc:creator>the Jester</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:17:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35161</guid> <description>Just for clarity, I don&#039;t think we can call Summon a hybrid solution.  They have stated quite emphatically that they have no intention of binding a federated search solution with their metadata index.  Personally, I think that is short-sighted because I anticipate there will always be cases where the metadata can&#039;t be integrated into a unified index.  If an institution desired, though, the Serials Solutions business model does seem to offer the opportunity for an institution to subscribe to the API version of Summon and build its own interface  that integrates a federated search system.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for clarity, I don&#8217;t think we can call Summon a hybrid solution.  They have stated quite emphatically that they have no intention of binding a federated search solution with their metadata index.  Personally, I think that is short-sighted because I anticipate there will always be cases where the metadata can&#8217;t be integrated into a unified index.  If an institution desired, though, the Serials Solutions business model does seem to offer the opportunity for an institution to subscribe to the API version of Summon and build its own interface  that integrates a federated search system.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brian Despain</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-35157</link> <dc:creator>Brian Despain</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:09:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-35157</guid> <description>A unified index meta data repository like Summon doesn&#039;t solve the access issue but rather it solves a user experience problem in the speed of broadcast searches.  In the end I think it&#039;s going to be difficult to get publishers to agree to provide their meta data for indexing.  At Deep Web we have been developing hybrid solutions like Summon for some time - it really helps speed results and helps normalize data across publishers.  I am not sure that treating sources that don&#039;t want to put their meta data in the repository like second class citizens is the way to go, it seems like a harsh stick but it goes with the carrot that putting your meta data in the repository allows you to scale your content without a huge investment of IT resources.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A unified index meta data repository like Summon doesn&#8217;t solve the access issue but rather it solves a user experience problem in the speed of broadcast searches.  In the end I think it&#8217;s going to be difficult to get publishers to agree to provide their meta data for indexing.  At Deep Web we have been developing hybrid solutions like Summon for some time &#8211; it really helps speed results and helps normalize data across publishers.  I am not sure that treating sources that don&#8217;t want to put their meta data in the repository like second class citizens is the way to go, it seems like a harsh stick but it goes with the carrot that putting your meta data in the repository allows you to scale your content without a huge investment of IT resources.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fed Search Blog</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-161043</link> <dc:creator>Fed Search Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:10:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-161043</guid> <description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Beyond Federated Search Redux. It started with a post by Carl Grant on the Federated Search Blog ... http://bit.ly/jEcpg&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Beyond Federated Search Redux. It started with a post by Carl Grant on the Federated Search Blog &#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/jEcpg" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/jEcpg</a></span></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fed Search Blog</title><link>http://dltj.org/article/beyond-federated-search-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-161044</link> <dc:creator>Fed Search Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 04:24:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://dltj.org/?p=847#comment-161044</guid> <description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Dirsruptive Library Technology Jester - Beyond Federated Search -  http://bit.ly/jEcpg&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Dirsruptive Library Technology Jester &#8211; Beyond Federated Search &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/jEcpg" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/jEcpg</a></span></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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